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 10 Want to Get the 944 to run cooler (Read 1310 times)
rgreco77
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1985.5 Porsche 944//2008
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Want to Get the 944 to run cooler
Jun 9th, 2008 at 9:17pm
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Good Evening Gents,

Here's the scoop,

85.5 944, recently noticed she was running a little warm and by that I mean, from what I remember the needle on the temp. guage would sit directly in the middle. 

After sitting for the winter, I noticed she would run up to the 2nd line ( the first one being the red..bad) and then bounce her self down again...

Anways that sat very uneasy in my stomach, brough it to the mechanie (who is a very trust worthing guy and only works on Porsches, always dont the right thing by me)  Had him look at it, he changed the h20 pump, and the radiator, my dad went to pick up the car, said it ran hot on the way home, brought it back pissed off and the mechanic checked those d**n wire and says its all better.

Now the car runs cooler, and as i remember, with the ocasionaly touch to the 2nd line ( running with the a/c on and in traffic)

My question is this.  I changed the gauge cluster right before I put her away for winter, my car is an automatic and I put the cluster in from a Standard (dont ask....didn't realize there was a diff. untill the shift light came on haha to me)...could the needle be sitting differently because of the swap in clusters...

And in General, how can i get the car to run cooler,

Like i said if i remember correctly the car aways sat in the middle of the Temp. guage and never moved past that, and now it seems to...

I dont know, just been on my mind since I got the car back.

Also FYI, I was very pisseed when the mechanic changed the H20 Pump and the Radiator and this and that when it was just those wires (that someone on the board told me about, thought I even said it ot he mechanic) especially since it was an 19 hour charge..but the Mechanic helped me out with that charge.

  
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Dawgz83948
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Re: Want to Get the 944 to run cooler
Reply #1 - Jun 10th, 2008 at 10:33am
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rgreco77 wrote on Jun 9th, 2008 at 9:17pm:
Good Evening Gents,

Here's the scoop,

85.5 944, recently noticed she was running a little warm and by that I mean, from what I remember the needle on the temp. guage would sit directly in the middle.  

After sitting for the winter, I noticed she would run up to the 2nd line ( the first one being the red..bad) and then bounce her self down again...

Anways that sat very uneasy in my stomach, brough it to the mechanie (who is a very trust worthing guy and only works on Porsches, always dont the right thing by me)  Had him look at it, he changed the h20 pump, and the radiator, my dad went to pick up the car, said it ran hot on the way home, brought it back pissed off and the mechanic checked those d**n wire and says its all better.

Now the car runs cooler, and as i remember, with the ocasionaly touch to the 2nd line ( running with the a/c on and in traffic)

My question is this.  I changed the gauge cluster right before I put her away for winter, my car is an automatic and I put the cluster in from a Standard (dont ask....didn't realize there was a diff. untill the shift light came on haha to me)...could the needle be sitting differently because of the swap in clusters...

And in General, how can i get the car to run cooler,

Like i said if i remember correctly the car aways sat in the middle of the Temp. guage and never moved past that, and now it seems to...

I dont know, just been on my mind since I got the car back.

Also FYI, I was very pisseed when the mechanic changed the H20 Pump and the Radiator and this and that when it was just those wires (that someone on the board told me about, thought I even said it ot he mechanic) especially since it was an 19 hour charge..but the Mechanic helped me out with that charge.



Hey, there are different temp thermostats you can buy. Get a cooler thermostat and replace it. When you do that you need to buy the cooler fan switch also. On my 83 normal was between the middle and upper line. Winter tends to make the cars run a little warmer. I thought it was screwed myself but Porsche put the thermostat on the inlet side of the waterpump so it has cool water running over it so it closes fast. Summer, especially with the A/C on, it will fluctuate and thats normal.
  

1990 944 S2 cab - 5.7l *Update* LE2 Heads, 11.0:1, Cstm Intake, .565 223 230 cam 418rwhp 423rwtq. &&Light travels faster than sound. That is why some people appear smart, until you hear them speak.
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jeffro0502
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Re: Want to Get the 944 to run cooler
Reply #2 - Sep 19th, 2008 at 10:00pm
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What????  Water runs through a 944 engine backwards?  I don't think that one is right plus WINTER does not make the engine run warmer!!!  However if you want your 944 to run cool...get a 160 temp thermostat from IAN, a new radiator because yours is probably clogged somewhat if it has never been changed and leave your original fan switch if it is still working.  Your temp gauge will stay at the first mark when driving and go up to the 3/4 or close to it when the fans kick on and go back down to the 1/4 mark.  I live in the panhandle of FL and this is how I have my car and works well.  It gets quite cold here in winter and have more than enough heat.  Before this I lived in northern part of bama and it was a lot colder there in winter and still had plenty of heat.  
  

Jeff Pinson&&Navarre, FL&&1985.5 944 - 544K&& (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
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Re: Want to Get the 944 to run cooler
Reply #3 - Sep 19th, 2008 at 11:14pm
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Water Wetter
12 bucks sold here and I have seen at pep boys. It says runs 20% cooler
  
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Dawgz83948
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Re: Want to Get the 944 to run cooler
Reply #4 - Sep 25th, 2008 at 4:31pm
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jeffro0502 wrote on Sep 19th, 2008 at 10:00pm:
What????  Water runs through a 944 engine backwards?  I don't think that one is right plus WINTER does not make the engine run warmer!!!  However if you want your 944 to run cool...get a 160 temp thermostat from IAN, a new radiator because yours is probably clogged somewhat if it has never been changed and leave your original fan switch if it is still working.  Your temp gauge will stay at the first mark when driving and go up to the 3/4 or close to it when the fans kick on and go back down to the 1/4 mark.  I live in the panhandle of FL and this is how I have my car and works well.  It gets quite cold here in winter and have more than enough heat.  Before this I lived in northern part of bama and it was a lot colder there in winter and still had plenty of heat.  


The 944 motor is known as a reverse flow motor, in essense running backwards. The thermostat is in the cool side of the radiator instead of the HOT side like standard flow motors. Winter keeps the motor 10-20* warmer because the thermostat closes faster because the cool water is cooler than it is summer time. The advantage to a reverseflow motor is it cools the heads better and makes running higher compression motors possible. The LT1 in my Porsche is reverse flow, and stock compression is 10.5:1. Conversely a standard flow (LS1) motor is only 9.5:1 but is easier to cool.
  

1990 944 S2 cab - 5.7l *Update* LE2 Heads, 11.0:1, Cstm Intake, .565 223 230 cam 418rwhp 423rwtq. &&Light travels faster than sound. That is why some people appear smart, until you hear them speak.
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jeffro0502
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My other car is a 944...

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Re: Want to Get the 944 to run cooler
Reply #5 - Sep 25th, 2008 at 7:26pm
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Dawgz83948 wrote on Sep 25th, 2008 at 4:31pm:
The 944 motor is known as a reverse flow motor, in essense running backwards. The thermostat is in the cool side of the radiator instead of the HOT side like standard flow motors. Winter keeps the motor 10-20* warmer because the thermostat closes faster because the cool water is cooler than it is summer time. The advantage to a reverseflow motor is it cools the heads better and makes running higher compression motors possible. The LT1 in my Porsche is reverse flow, and stock compression is 10.5:1. Conversely a standard flow (LS1) motor is only 9.5:1 but is easier to cool.

These are only reverse flow engines in the fact that water enters the head and exits from the thermostat on the side bottom of the engine going into radiator then the cooled water flows into the top of the engine or the head.  A regular engine say an older chevy v-8 is opposite in the fact that the water comes out of the top of the engine where thermostat is.   All engines with thermostats work the same meaning water always exits the thermostat.  Water does not I repeat does not flow into thermostat (THERMOSTAT IS NOT ON THE COLD SIDE)....it only comes out of it ON THE HOT SIDE.  On the 944 engine the thermostat is still not on the cold side.  Look at the design of the thermostat and you have your answer.  VW water cooled engines are the same as these.  Comes out of T-stat on bottom/side cold water goes into head on top of the motor.   This engine also does not run warmer in the winter!!!!
  

Jeff Pinson&&Navarre, FL&&1985.5 944 - 544K&& (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
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Dawgz83948
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Re: Want to Get the 944 to run cooler
Reply #6 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 9:29am
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jeffro0502 wrote on Sep 25th, 2008 at 7:26pm:
These are only reverse flow engines in the fact that water enters the head and exits from the thermostat on the side bottom of the engine going into radiator then the cooled water flows into the top of the engine or the head.  A regular engine say an older chevy v-8 is opposite in the fact that the water comes out of the top of the engine where thermostat is.   All engines with thermostats work the same meaning water always exits the thermostat.  Water does not I repeat does not flow into thermostat (THERMOSTAT IS NOT ON THE COLD SIDE)....it only comes out of it ON THE HOT SIDE.  On the 944 engine the thermostat is still not on the cold side.  Look at the design of the thermostat and you have your answer.  VW water cooled engines are the same as these.  Comes out of T-stat on bottom/side cold water goes into head on top of the motor.   This engine also does not run warmer in the winter!!!!


You shoulda called Porsche and suggested that when they made them, however If you get your car to operating temps you will find the lower hose is cooler than the upper hose (at least it was on mine and 3 other 944's I've worked on). There is a reason they call the opening on the waterpump an inlet and not an outlet. You are right that the pump dumps water near the head 1st to cool it off then the block but your direction is wrong. The thermostat has to always point towards the motor so position is irrelevant in this case. And yes, yes they do. But it has been a while since I've had to work on the weed whacker motor though.

My car in summer always stayed between 3/4 and 1/2. Winter it would always stay between the 1/2 and 3/4 marks consistantly. Summer on the freeway it would be at 1/2 winter between 1/2 and 3/4 (but would not fluctuate). I call that running hotter.

BTW a 160* thermostat is not a great idea, all motors like running above 180 since the metal expands and everything seals better. You will lower the life expectancy of the motor. I have rebuilt many motors and the lower thermostats showed more cyl scoring than the stock thermostat and scoring your cylinder walls is not a grand idea when they are made of silicone impregnated aluminum.
  

1990 944 S2 cab - 5.7l *Update* LE2 Heads, 11.0:1, Cstm Intake, .565 223 230 cam 418rwhp 423rwtq. &&Light travels faster than sound. That is why some people appear smart, until you hear them speak.
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jeffro0502
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Re: Want to Get the 944 to run cooler
Reply #7 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 10:34am
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Here is a line from "924/944/968 Frequently Asked Questions"  [url]URL:   (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)[/url]

The thermostat recirculates the water until the engine is hot, and then opens up to let the water into the radiator.

Doesn't sound like an "inlet"

Are they wrong also?

The original thermostat is a 180...I've been in 944's since high school, my current car is a 1985.5 and I've been in this one since 1986 and have had 160 thermostats in it the whole time...motor never apart and and doesn't burn a drop of oil.  The other turbo 944's I've had have also had the 160 in them and I've done a number of headgaskets on those and never have i seen any of the issues you describe.
  

Jeff Pinson&&Navarre, FL&&1985.5 944 - 544K&& (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
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Dawgz83948
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Re: Want to Get the 944 to run cooler
Reply #8 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 2:11pm
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jeffro0502 wrote on Sep 26th, 2008 at 10:34am:
Here is a line from "924/944/968 Frequently Asked Questions"  [url]URL:   (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)[/url]

The thermostat recirculates the water until the engine is hot, and then opens up to let the water into the radiator.

Doesn't sound like an "inlet"

Are they wrong also?

The original thermostat is a 180...I've been in 944's since high school, my current car is a 1985.5 and I've been in this one since 1986 and have had 160 thermostats in it the whole time...motor never apart and and doesn't burn a drop of oil.  The other turbo 944's I've had have also had the 160 in them and I've done a number of headgaskets on those and never have i seen any of the issues you describe.


Did you check your hoses? What they say is right but they don't mention the direction. If the thermostat is closed there is no flow, either way. Turbo's super heat the oil so a 160 would be ok for them, even for N/A's but it is something that all engine experts agree on. Talk to a mechanic or a race mechanic.
  

1990 944 S2 cab - 5.7l *Update* LE2 Heads, 11.0:1, Cstm Intake, .565 223 230 cam 418rwhp 423rwtq. &&Light travels faster than sound. That is why some people appear smart, until you hear them speak.
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smokin_944
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Re: Want to Get the 944 to run cooler
Reply #9 - Sep 28th, 2008 at 6:02pm
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I dunno bout you guys, but my Haynes 944 manual says that The thermostat housing is located on the outlet of the water pump at the lower radiator hose to pump junction. If they say outlet, its probably accurate
  
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jeffro0502
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Re: Want to Get the 944 to run cooler
Reply #10 - Sep 28th, 2008 at 6:20pm
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Smokin thanks but I doubt Dawgz will understand even that.
  

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ramius665
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Re: Want to Get the 944 to run cooler
Reply #11 - Sep 28th, 2008 at 9:09pm
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The BEST and most COST EFFECTIVE way to get your 944 to run cooler over the course of it's life is to replace the entire cooling system.  Radiator, hoses, waterpump and the oil cooler seal.  I know it will cost a pretty penny, but on a 100* day in San Antonio the car *NEVER* gets above the mid-level mark.  All told, it cost about $800 and a weekend of beer-drinking and cussin' but the results speak for themselves.  Just something to chew on, and if you live in a hot climate, I can't stress this enough!
  

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Re: Want to Get the 944 to run cooler
Reply #12 - Sep 29th, 2008 at 11:21am
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check this also

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e mail&&ian@944online.com&&phone&&toll free in the USA 1 866 944 7883&&outside the USA&&1 954 968 3766&&FAX -1 954 968 3798
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smokin_944
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Re: Want to Get the 944 to run cooler
Reply #13 - Oct 3rd, 2008 at 12:25pm
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Ramius is right, I've just completed a full swap out in my 944 and it runs cooler... 8) I picked up the low temp stat and switch, water temp sender, all new hoses, new rad, cooling relay and installed the works. What a PITA! However, the results speak for themselves. The temp gauge reads between the first hash line and doesn't pass dead center. No matter what. I game tested the car THIS morning. Niiiice!Total cost was $860.  Not for the faint of heart! Shocked
  
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Dawgz83948
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Re: Want to Get the 944 to run cooler
Reply #14 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 9:36am
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jeffro0502 wrote on Sep 28th, 2008 at 6:20pm:
Smokin thanks but I doubt Dawgz will understand even that.



Well then I stand corrected. It's been a long time since I've worked on the Gerbal Motor, I couldnt honestly remember which was the hotter hose.
  

1990 944 S2 cab - 5.7l *Update* LE2 Heads, 11.0:1, Cstm Intake, .565 223 230 cam 418rwhp 423rwtq. &&Light travels faster than sound. That is why some people appear smart, until you hear them speak.
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